also, on Karui’s heart, the fact that it fused with the portal stone is rather interesting, and also, there was a line about how the Chief realized that the heart only came free when the portal was opened, and thats how he realized he couldnt leave as a monster. Doesnt that mean that the Chief knows how to open the portal out??? he has to know, or there was a time when he was there and it did open also i guess, since if he knows the heart comes free when the portal opens, and that he cant go through as a monster, then he must have been there when the portal opened, therefore the chief must have some idea as to how the portal opens, or potentially what trigger is connected to its opening. cause given that we know people couldnt come here up to now, means that the portal had to either have been triggered by routine timing, or the chief directly did something or made a human who came via dimensional collapse and survived, either way, those words imply the chief know about the opening of the portal, and also, imply another thing, that opening and closing a portal with a high enough grade artifact there can fuse the artifact into the portal stone and allow its abilities to be used from said location. Why do i feel like that specific concept Will become relevant somehow later, also makes me wonder what other items can be combined into portal stones, is it only ones of divine origin? or is there some other condition for it? or could it be that Karui’s heart is also originally a part of the Labyrinth, and therefore was intended to be moved and taken out or something, and if the heart of Karui was originally from the labyrinth and therefore part of it, could teh gods themselves be products of the Labyrinth? hidden pieces that were taken out and are just doing their function? or if not of the Labyrinth itself, cause there has been some stuff to imply they predate it, then possibly of the same origin? and therefore compatible? and like i mentioned last chapter, if there is such a thing as the Heart of Leatlas, could either the royal family currently have it, or could it also be somewhere in the labyrinth, fused into a portal or some other important fragment of the labyrinth, i just have so many questions and the more we learn the more questions i have
on that note also, if the concept of fusing an artifact comes into play in the labyrinth again, maybe its a road to various hidden pieces, like for example, if you fuse the right thing into the right portal stone, maybe the portal that opens takes you to a secret area or region, like, there must be some reason that Karui’s heart can fuse into the portal stones, everything in dungeon and stone has tended to be intentional and especially so in the labyrinth itself, so i can only imagine there are secrets to be found still in the fusion of portal stones and the artifacts like Karui’s heart.
that is a fun idea, maybe each race relic even has a special hidden region from a specific portal stone that serves as basically the optimal place for that races most optimal builds and training as well, also, on the note of fusing more than one artifact into a portal stone, that has potential itself,since you can use the powers of the fused artifact from the portal stone, could fusing more than one item into it, create entirely new, exponential effects as the items powers and effects also could potentially fuse, giving new and powerful options
now the question remains however, when will the Chief leave, his goal is escape, and if he was wanting to just outright leave, its surprising he hasnt already up and left by killing himself. Is he waiting for something? is it just to repay Bjorn by this offer of legally taking stuff? was it part of the deal with Bjorn that they made offscreen, cause its super clear there was alot of stuff discussed we didnt get to see, given how easy this all appeared, i wonder if it will be glossed over, or if we’ll get like flashback type moments back to their actual conversations. But overall, when will the Chief leave? is it out of some desire to make things look natural? blend in as Saintred, and since Saintred has already not just up and died to leave, maybe the Chief is looking for a chance to die “naturally” and not raise any suspicion? like, he has been here for thousands of years, so tbh, its kind of a small shock he didnt straight up leave. Though with how cautious the Chief is, maybe he just wants to doublecheck all the info and how many revives he actually has or something, since we also dont know how many revives Saintred has left, we only know 1 was used years ago, and that there are 1-2 remaining, if its 2 remaining, that means even after the Chief left, he has another chance to revive after death, so i could imagine him just leaving more readily and willingly, cause its not as much of a loss if another revive remains, but if he only has 1 remaining right now, maybe he will decide to wait to die and see if its possible to save that revival chance for later, and instead use Bjorn to escape normally, knowing that if things did go wrong, he could then just leave at that time without issue, he’s already been waiting this long, so maybe he wouldnt mind waiting a bit longer on the off chance he can save that revival chance
Given the amount of eyes, my money is that he can’t just be like… oops! I died. Lol. That would be really sus for the First Commander of the Royal Army. Maybe he’ll wait til they fight a really tough monster and fall trying to “protect” someone and succum to his injuries (if the priests don’t get to him quickly enough). Maybe the giant on that giant island?If they didn’t slaughter all the villagers, maybe he could have gotten one to jump in the body of an unsuspecting expedition force member and have him sneak kill Saintred, yelling “for Noarc!!!”. Though suggesting this makes me feel bad for that poor soul.
Hmm, I think he doesn’t know for sure if he actually has any 1-ups remaining. He also may not know he has Iblis essence at all. He needs confirmation and risking his 1-ups and casting suspicion upon himself seems purely disadvantageous.
Don’t you love it when a plan comes together? The barbarian shaman didn’t lie, man… Bjorn had some horrid luck, but when he overcomes it, he attains great achievements and rewards.
Alright, so there’s even less reason for Misha to keep everything hidden from Bjorn now which is pissing me off. She already had the stone so who cares what promise she made with Lee. If she doesn't give a good reason for keeping it hidden from Bjorn then it pretty much cements her as a traitorous dumbass. I know Misha simps refuse to acknowledge that she trusts Lee more than Bjorn, but at this point I don't know how they can dispute this anymore.
She doesn’t know that he knows yet. From her perspective, nothing has changed. Only Bjorn knows that he knows. He’ll likely be the one to approach her, though i’m sure that convo will be rather tense…
Her not telling Bjorn that she made a deal with Lee IS the betrayal though. Making the deal is fine. Giving Lee something he wants is also fine. What's not fine is keeping it a secret from Bjorn, period. There's literally no justification for that. Even if Lee told her that telling Bjorn would lead to his death, it doesn't matter. It means she trusts Lee more than Bjorn. That's also indisputable. Regardless of what she says, her actions speak louder than words.
I believe that was the deal to get the resurrection stone. I mean she did worse on the promise of getting the resurrection stone (declaring Bjorn as an evil spirit). Im sure she believed Baek-Ho would not give her the stone unless she promised to secrecy, so this is the price. In her mind, she’s not thinking i’m doing this to betray Bjorn – she’s thinking, I gotta do everything in my power to ensure this man stays alive, whether he likes it or not. I certainly think there’s deceit for sure, but betrayal involves intent. She’s just hiding secrets, just like Bjorn is hiding secrets from her. Just in her case, it’s due to the promise/price she paid for the stone, and Misha is not known to go back on her word.I think vilifying her in this context is a bit short-sighted
Just like everyone else that rationalized her betrayal, you do so out of desperation. You like her character and try to excuse her deceit. Her intention was clear. To deceive Bjorn. The reason why, which you want to focus on, is IRRELEVANT. She trusts Lee more than Bjorn. This is what's unforgivable. Contend with this argument because this is the point. You can say you think her betrayal is justified, but you have to acknowledge her betrayal. You’re doing everything in your power not to admit it, because you know that defending her betrayal makes you sound weak.
Not at all, i’m just putting her character into perspective. Someone whose been in a position of having to keep a secret from those they care about for their own safety, it weighs heavily on them, but the safety quotient holds it together. I disagree that she trusts Baek-ho overall more than Bjorn – however, after living with the crazed Korean for years, she knows he can make Bjorn's life a living hell, if not kill him. Then she would be the cause of Bjorn's hardship, and she has enough guilt on her hands. Yes, her selfishness is the flaw in her actions, but I don’t, and I doubt Bjorn would, see this alone as a betrayal. I sense some deep seated feelings against the catlady.. it’s possible you may have a personal experience which leads you to relate Misha's actions as intending to deceive, but i’m pretty sure that if she felt it was safe enough to tell Bjorn, she would have. But we’ll see when they have the chance to talk it out, and see how that convo goes. Hopefully we won’t have to wait too long 🙏
I don't think you actually understand what you're saying. You say she's in a position where she HAS to keep a secret from Bjorn and that's an assumption that can only be made IF you trust Lee’s words/threats MORE than Bjorn’s agency. By smuggling in this assumption, you've already admitted that she trusts Lee more than Bjorn. She LIED to Bjorn. Even you don't dispute this. As I said, you're trying to justify WHY she lied while I'm saying it doesn't matter WHY. She can always rationalize any lie going forward using whatever reason she wants now, which is what you refuse to wrap your head around. She's a known liar now, so WHY should anyone in the group trust that she won't have a reason to keep lying to them in the future?
I think you might have misunderstood what I was saying. I’m saying her keeping the secret from Bjorn about the pact with Baek-Ho isn’t her trusting Baek-Ho over Bjorn. Its the same as Bjorn keeping certain things secret from Amelia, or Amelia not telling Bjorn what happened between Misha and Erwin. It’s not that Amelia trusts the girls more than Bjorn – it’s just that she’s not a pawn and knows how to protect him. Sure in this circumstance, Misha's desire to protect him backfires because Baek-Ho is a crafty bugger, but she made a deal with the devil to get what she wanted: Bjorns safety. So I disagree that keeping this a secret from him means she trusts Baek-Ho over Bjorn – it doesn’t have anything to do with trust imho. Her judgement is questionable, yes, but she’s not a pawn or a soldier – she’s arguably someone who desperately cares for Bjorn and wants to protect him, regardless of the consequences. And there be consequences.Anyway, we still have differences of opinion, and that’s cool, we can leave it at that. I respect your opinion even if I don’t agree with it – that’s the fun of having this community and sharing ideas with folks here
I get that but what I'm saying that the ONLY problem is that she listened to the explicit instructions from the leader of another team to LIE to Bjorn and the rest of her team. If anyone else on his team were to do the same, they would also be traitors. I would even go as far as to say that if Misha decided on her own that she couldn't tell Bjorn it wouldn't be betrayal. That would've just been a stupid decision. However the fact that she accepted the explicit request to lie to her team is what makes it betrayal.
Alright, i’ll go as far as to agree that keeping this from Bjorn was a betrayal of his trust – no denying that. And for the record, I, in no way, form, or fahsion, mean to paint Misha in an immaculate light. Her judgement was flawed for sure, but very human. That being said, I still don’t believe her actions showed her trusting Baek-Ho over Bjorn, though I do see what you’re getting at. I’d moreso characterize that as her understanding that Baek-Ho could end Bjorns life, one way or another if she betrayed their deal. Not trusting Baek-Ho, but trusting her own (skewed but valid) grip on reality.Just to switch things up for curiosity's sake, how do you feel about Bjorn knowing that Misha was holed up with Baek-Ho for some time due to her thinking Bjorn was dead, and him not telling her about that, nor about the truce he made with Baek-Ho?
You can’t say that her deciding to keep it a secret from Bjorn at Lee’s command is anything but her trusting in Bjorn less, even if what Lee said was taken as a threat. Assume it’s either A) a prophecy or B) a threat. If “A” then she not only believes in Lee’s words over Bjorn’s ability to protect himself with prophetic knowledge, but also allows for the possibility of being manipulated by Lee if he’s lying (which she would know as she’s been with him for so long.) So, regardless of what her reasons are for option “A” she trusts Lee over Bjorn. If option “B” then she trusts in Lee’s prowess over Bjorn’s. This could even be objectively true, however she still trusts in Lee over Bjorn even with the heads up of Lee saying he was going to kill Bjorn. The betrayal in in taking her leader’s agency and ability to lead over Lee’s. There is NO other interpretation here, at least none that anyone else in the comments has stated. You can see most people don’t even want to admit that Misha betrayed him at all. You can even imagine how the other members would react in the exact same scenario. Amelia would do the correct thing and take the deal then immediately tell Bjorn about it. Erwin would also not keep it a secret. Ainar would 100% keep it secret if Lee told her to keep it a secret so it could be a super fun surprise for him later, like a surprise party. She’s also the only one I would say is incapable of actually betraying Bjorn in this scenario, because she simply wouldn’t understand what was happening.Bjorn has always been weak with women as is evident with his interactions with Misha (like when Dwalki called him out) and with the implied interactions with his ex. When they met again after so long he likely knew that she had been with Lee at least as long if not longer than she has been with Bjorn and it showed. So he was likely hurt but probably understood. It probably felt like betrayal then but unjustified as he was believed to have been dead. He’s always confrontational with every interaction except with women where he’s the complete opposite. This has always clearly been eating away at his mind and he was forced to confront it now but will likely put it off until later as he always tries to do.
Tbh, in your example, my position has been that it is C) her reasoning that it’s very likely that Baek-Ho could ruin Bjorn, and the safer option would be to agree. This would be taking her own agency into account, since I do find her to be an intelligent but “loyal to a fault” type of character (even to her own admission). Also, I’m of the opinion that she doesnt just see Bjorn as her “leader” – when he was there, she’d follow his good judgement and tried to please him, but he stopped being a “leader” the moment she believed he was dead. Since then, I think he's been something more akin to person she cares about and needs to revive/protect. Again though, we'll only really see the inner thoughts when things play out (hopefully), and there's more room for that.Interesting, I actually think Amelia and Versyl would be the only ones on the team who would tell Bjorn if they were in this scenario. Amelia, because she is incredibly sharp and tells Bjorn like it is (again Misha admitted the differences b/w her and Amelia), and Versyl, only because of her development through the trust challenge against the floor lord. I think Erwin would also hide it until confronted, like she did with the recording device in the house (and how she got the original house to begin with), and Aynar is a 50/50 because she is naturally trusting, but also not the most tight-lipped. Even Raven (though she’s not on the team) would keep the secret, as she has kept certain secrets since joining the army. This is all my opinion though – I’m interested in hearing other ppls opinions on this (if anyone else reads this far, lol)Also interesting that you humanized Bjorn and explained his natural flaws in response to my question about keeping that secret from Misha but didn’t draw any parallels to Misha's predicament.
That’s not option C that’s just plain old B. If she believes Lee can ruin Bjorn then it was a threat. She’s choosing to believe in the threat and believes that Lee will not only act on it but also see it through. This is the worst option because that threat is always there. He can always make the exact same threat and push Misha to do more and more. The fact that she’s intelligent actually hurts her here not helps. She’s not stupid, she knows Lee can demand more and that he’d have more of a threat as he can expose her as being a traitor to Bjorn. She chose it regardless. This means the most important question is why should Bjorn and co. believe anything she says after this? Why should anyone in the party ever trust her again? Does she deserve this trust? My point is that right now she not only doesn’t deserve to be trusted but that it would be absolutely foolish to trust her.
what alot of people forget while trying to butcher misha character is that lee has seen the record stone and misha has been around lee enough to know how much of a fucking monster he is lee could fuck up the underground force get called into the world of evil spirits tell bjorn not to join the war then leave the land of evil spirits while continuing to fuck up the leader of the underground force and keep in mind without essences because we know the leader of the underground force has a essence that does not allow essence use and has been in the world way longer then lee also he could simply gas light by saying if bjorn found out then it would change the future and he would die misha has plent of reasons for keeping things a secret
well guys dont forget this was not easy at all a literal god had to work behind the scenes for stuff to go well this is my cope for the amount of people who are going to die fighting the giant on the next island or maybe the chief back stabbing bjorn and summoning his dragon lets not forget that either new theories start now
Yeah, I can't believe it was this easy to get rid of Saintred. But we can't let our guard down yet! IIRC Bjorn was able to take back his body in that vision and ask for his death.And I think he didn't tell that to the village chief.I hope it never happens tho, and he stays dead for good.
Yeah… It could be Bjorn’s ego is particularly strong… Or, more likely with his luck, there’s a scheme beneath the visible. Maybe Saintred will incarnate a new village chief when new monster villagers spawn here? Perhaps he is sharing real estate with the village chief currently, discussing their new plans going forward.
i mean, i have a feeling its partially from his high mental resistance, cause from what we have seen, Bjorn’s mental fortitude and willpower are like, off the charts high, and that was at the start of the series, now his willpower is even more extreme and focused. and even then, all we saw was Bjorn able to make his body stop against the Chief, and only as he was about to kill his closest comrades and friends. To me, that implies that Bjorn basically wrested control for only a moment, and even then, knew he would very soon lose that moment of control, which is why he asked to be killed. So if we take this as our standard, we can assume that, to resist the bodyswap, the original owner of the body must have insane willpower and mental fortitude, and from what we have seen of Saintred, he does have alot of willpower, as much as Bjorn? im not sure id personally say taht, but for sure not more than Bjorn, i think we can all agree on that idea. So for the sake of this hypothetical, lets assume that Saintred has equal willpower to Bjorn. In such a case, if the Chief is not trying to share or give control back, we can then assume that Saintred, with similar willpower to Bjorn, will not be able to resist that control, except for maybe a moment in an extremely high stress situation, thus, unless there was some form of outside intervention, like the king, for example, i cant see Saintred taking back control from the Chief once outside the labyrinth except for maybe in a moment during combat with someone, and i can imagine there being a moment of Saintred seizing control from the Chief the moment before he is killed, in an act of vengence for stealing his body, but also, if Saintred was able to do something like that, would have to maintain his ego and Will for a long time inside the Chief, as Saintred also knows that his body has the Iblis essence, and therefore, some revives, so if Saintred truly wanted to use that single potential chance to harm the Chief, would have to aim for such a moment during the last life of the Iblis essence. and we dont know how difficult it is to maintain ego and willpower once taken over, it may be constant, it may slowly drain, we just dont know. So we could see a moment of Saintred trying to take back control at some point, but given the example we do have, i cant imagine it being a large moment, or a complete takeback of control, unless something external happens at least, like i mentioned before
People with a clearcut objective tend to have an insane will. Saintred does everything, and anything for the royal family.Also, from the vision, we kinda could conclude the original soul possessing the body can see what's happening, since Bjorn immediately asked for them to take his head.So Saintred could easily observe what's happening and bid his time. He only needs a small opening. Theory ahead, like I said in the last chapter, I will hide it so as to not bother people who don't like to read these, for fear of spoilers and such.For example, when he is in presence of people capable of helping him or retaining him. Obviously the royals are the prime candidate. We still don't know what kinda powers the king has, but it's not far fetched he has a way to control souls. Even the power he showed the previous barbarian chief could make Saintred take back control of his body, assuming Saintred is affected by it like the other natives.
oh absolutely, which is why i specified that my hypothetical is without outside intervention, Saintred absolutely could bide his time for the optimal moment in front of a royal somehow, and cause some new problems for the Chief, its going to be very interesting to see how things proceed
I don't think he can control the evil spirits though. That's why he went into the meeting of leaders and let out his power. He even said something like “he's not here.” He's looking for someone. Crazy things are going to happen when the king and Bjorn are face to face.
what if the king was looking for the Chief. The VC said he stole Karui’s heart, and its used for body swapping, and the king knows that, so they could be waiting and watching for the day that the VC returns, knowing he can remain alive forever with body swapping, and figure he may try and get power and close to the King, so that could be part of it
All that tracks, but I think there’s a real possibility of a non confrontational relationship between their ego blooming. Once Saintred accepts his situation as a prisoner in his own hijacked body, conversations could start to take place between the two. And to saintred, him giving out bjorns information, eg being iron mask, would be one of the few things he could do advance the king’s agenda. Everything is just going too well right meow!
Now the royal family has someone they think they can trust who probably wants them all dead. And Lee baek-ho has had his little plan derailed. Honestly i’m hoping things go well for once, there’s not even a Hans here
It's amazing to see how this community has grown around Bjorn and Hen, at the beginning were like 2 or 3 comments and me just saying BETHEL RAAAAAAAA every new chapter
Unlock with Patreon
i hope they stay a team to fuck over the royals
Yeah this has been a great arc, now it’s time for the expedition force to clear out every island and get too strong
Well that is a nice way to wrap things up
GG EZ success
also, on Karui’s heart, the fact that it fused with the portal stone is rather interesting, and also, there was a line about how the Chief realized that the heart only came free when the portal was opened, and thats how he realized he couldnt leave as a monster. Doesnt that mean that the Chief knows how to open the portal out??? he has to know, or there was a time when he was there and it did open also i guess, since if he knows the heart comes free when the portal opens, and that he cant go through as a monster, then he must have been there when the portal opened, therefore the chief must have some idea as to how the portal opens, or potentially what trigger is connected to its opening. cause given that we know people couldnt come here up to now, means that the portal had to either have been triggered by routine timing, or the chief directly did something or made a human who came via dimensional collapse and survived, either way, those words imply the chief know about the opening of the portal, and also, imply another thing, that opening and closing a portal with a high enough grade artifact there can fuse the artifact into the portal stone and allow its abilities to be used from said location. Why do i feel like that specific concept Will become relevant somehow later, also makes me wonder what other items can be combined into portal stones, is it only ones of divine origin? or is there some other condition for it? or could it be that Karui’s heart is also originally a part of the Labyrinth, and therefore was intended to be moved and taken out or something, and if the heart of Karui was originally from the labyrinth and therefore part of it, could teh gods themselves be products of the Labyrinth? hidden pieces that were taken out and are just doing their function? or if not of the Labyrinth itself, cause there has been some stuff to imply they predate it, then possibly of the same origin? and therefore compatible? and like i mentioned last chapter, if there is such a thing as the Heart of Leatlas, could either the royal family currently have it, or could it also be somewhere in the labyrinth, fused into a portal or some other important fragment of the labyrinth, i just have so many questions and the more we learn the more questions i have
now the question remains however, when will the Chief leave, his goal is escape, and if he was wanting to just outright leave, its surprising he hasnt already up and left by killing himself. Is he waiting for something? is it just to repay Bjorn by this offer of legally taking stuff? was it part of the deal with Bjorn that they made offscreen, cause its super clear there was alot of stuff discussed we didnt get to see, given how easy this all appeared, i wonder if it will be glossed over, or if we’ll get like flashback type moments back to their actual conversations. But overall, when will the Chief leave? is it out of some desire to make things look natural? blend in as Saintred, and since Saintred has already not just up and died to leave, maybe the Chief is looking for a chance to die “naturally” and not raise any suspicion? like, he has been here for thousands of years, so tbh, its kind of a small shock he didnt straight up leave. Though with how cautious the Chief is, maybe he just wants to doublecheck all the info and how many revives he actually has or something, since we also dont know how many revives Saintred has left, we only know 1 was used years ago, and that there are 1-2 remaining, if its 2 remaining, that means even after the Chief left, he has another chance to revive after death, so i could imagine him just leaving more readily and willingly, cause its not as much of a loss if another revive remains, but if he only has 1 remaining right now, maybe he will decide to wait to die and see if its possible to save that revival chance for later, and instead use Bjorn to escape normally, knowing that if things did go wrong, he could then just leave at that time without issue, he’s already been waiting this long, so maybe he wouldnt mind waiting a bit longer on the off chance he can save that revival chance
Don’t you love it when a plan comes together? The barbarian shaman didn’t lie, man… Bjorn had some horrid luck, but when he overcomes it, he attains great achievements and rewards.
Question is, now what’s next?
Alright, so there’s even less reason for Misha to keep everything hidden from Bjorn now which is pissing me off. She already had the stone so who cares what promise she made with Lee. If she doesn't give a good reason for keeping it hidden from Bjorn then it pretty much cements her as a traitorous dumbass. I know Misha simps refuse to acknowledge that she trusts Lee more than Bjorn, but at this point I don't know how they can dispute this anymore.
The issue with betrayal is once you do it too much, it’s the only option you have
well guys dont forget this was not easy at all a literal god had to work behind the scenes for stuff to go well this is my cope for the amount of people who are going to die fighting the giant on the next island or maybe the chief back stabbing bjorn and summoning his dragon lets not forget that either new theories start now
Holyyyyyy **** here we goooo it’s getting spicy now
Legit thought something was going to go wrong the entire time haha
New here and I have one thing to say I need more please thank you
This feels too easy. Im glad it worked out but we are 100% missing something here.
BETHEL-RAAAAAAAA!!
Thank you for the chapter Hen!
Now the royal family has someone they think they can trust who probably wants them all dead. And Lee baek-ho has had his little plan derailed. Honestly i’m hoping things go well for once, there’s not even a Hans here
It's going way too well. Something has to go wrong soon right?
The last chapter had 86 Comments. So good to see a lot of people enjoy the series and theorize about it
I can swear you had us waiting on purpose Hen🐧