If not parallel realities – why not iterations? For example, if Vampire is from one of the previous world iterations, when different types of creatures inhabited the current for him version of the world.
if Two Gods Church’s were taken down by the Empire before, I wonder who they were? One could have been karui, maybe before this, Karui was more normal, but after having their entire church and following razed, maybe he became vengeful against the world? Or maybe Karui was never one of those 2 church’s taken down, What if Karui was from another universe, who crossed over to here for some reason known only to him. Karui seemingly works different from the other god stuff we’ve seen, but we also have only really seen 2 gods, so its possible every one is very different in powers and scope, so its hard to know anything specific on gods yet
Hmm, we are severely lacking info about the different religions in the Empire and Raphdonia… we don't even know what each current god stands for.What we are starting to see is the empire was doing something unholy. And maybe it went against the other two religions precepts.And since we have seen a god with incredible powers in Leatlas it makes you think… was the witch truly fighting alone? (I know she had followers, but I'm talking about someone greater than her or at the very least on the same level)The labyrinth and all of that is truly an insane thing to create with the power of a mortal. Maybe the other two gods were/are aiding the witch.
Or maybe something else entirely…Also, what we do know about the 3 gods are their names (Leatlas/Tobera/Heindal), and that they all supply priests and paladins for healing, buffs, etc. The priests and paladins don’t use essences, and gain skills when the bishops & cardinals pray to the gods for blessings. The Gods sometimes provide relevations to the saints (and rarely to followers). All divine power comes from them, and allows for the manipulation of the soul (removing essences, buffs, etc). We also know they have popes.What we don’t know enough about is what they preach that distinguishes one church from another, or if it is like 3 different gods of the same pantheon (like some greek, hindu, norse gods); and how active they are (aside from Leatlas who seems to be doing the most)Edit: also who the other 2 gods are, and how Karui fits into this mix
looking into the history of the Names Tobera, and Heindal, For Tobera, I found “The Japanese name "tobira" comes from "tobira no ki", which roughly translates to "door tree". This name originates from the plant's use in ancient times. Because it emits a foul odor when its leaves or branches are cut, it was traditionally hung in doorways during Setsubun (a Japanese festival) to ward off evil spirits, often alongside heads of sardines. The Korean name "ton(-namu)" is related to the Japanese word "tobira" for the same plant. This suggests a connection between the two languages regarding the name of this specific plant. While the exact linguistic relationship is not fully clear, it's an example of the kind of similarities that can exist between Japanese and Korean vocabulary, sometimes related to loanwords or cognates with a common origin” as the closet cognate, and given that spelling when translating can be iffy, im not 100% sure if this is the origin for Tobera, but if so, maybe theyre somehow related to Opening New Paths? New Doorways? Options? and for Heindal, this name is already very similar to the name Heimdal, who is a Norse god who kept an eye out for Ragnorak, or the Apocalyse, and also managed the magic rainbow bridge that allowed for passage between all worlds, Called the Bifrost, if we adapt this concept to dungeon and stone, if Heindal even Is related at all to Heimdal, its possible theyre very different, then maybe Heindal is a god who warns of danger, maybe controls luck or something in that sense of avoiding danger, protecting/healing/buffing through rainbows or something along those lines. Or maybe theyre both entirely different
You, my friend, are very cool. That, or i’m just a fellow nerd who appreciates a good linguistic analysis :PIf you take the Japanese door plant meaning you found and isolate the “door” part, some interesting analysis can come from that too. I had a prompt conversation with Gemini over this and it gave me chills when it finally posited this concept:—- Tobera, the Guardian of Thresholds. They would be a protective entity, revered for their ability to repel malevolent forces and ensure safe passage. Their dominion would extend to all transitional spaces: doorways, gates, borders between realms, and even the liminal moments of life such as birth, death, and significant changes. Worshippers might hang symbols associated with Tobira on their doors or at crossroads to invoke their protection. Rituals to Tobira could involve cleansing ceremonies to banish negativity before entering new phases of life or new physical spaces. Tobera might be depicted with a stern but watchful gaze, perhaps surrounded by a faint, purifying aura or carrying a symbolic "key" or "gate".—-Obviously this is all in the realm of conjecture, but fun nonetheless. I had some more fun trying out concepts for Heindal, Leatlas and Karui, but this got me thinking…The gods would be aware of evil spirits and their transfer of souls from another world. It seems the “evil” perception is propogated by the royal family rather than the church AFAIK (aka political propoganda), and both Bjorn and Sven, two evil spirits, are directly supported by Leatlas herself. Could there be some divine support for the transfer of souls from other worlds, or at least a lack of aversion? Could Gavis’ game be leveraging some process that already existed for soul transfer, and what part do the gods play into that, if at all?
also on Leatlas, She seems powerful yes, But even she seemed to have very clear Limits. She couldn’t stop time, only show the future, which means she also cant even slow time at all, and while yes, she can grant power to others, from what has been shown to us, Her OWN ability to directly impact the world seems very limited. She can impart visions very rarely, likely with some Causality drawback or limitation of Mortals limiting her from doing so too much, and we saw she can create divine relics, and given the reaction from the priesthood and the round table, divine relics being made are incredibly rare. Thus this must also have some cost for the god, if not, they could create items for their clergy, So maybe its time based, maybe its a resourced based thing, maybe its a power based cost, we dont know enough. If we consider that Karui may operate on similar limiations, but a different resource to pay the cost, then worship may just provide a steady income of Godly resources to conduct miracles on the mortal plane, while karui instead uses sacrifice, making me wonder, if Leatlas and the other gods can also accept sacrifices for power but dont on principle. For the visions, we do know there is some effect on the mortal’s body due to Bjorn, and we can assume that techincally anyone CAN receive a vision from her, and its not limited to Believers. and while an individual cant receive more than 1 vision most likely given the system prompt we got, if there was no cost limit, there would be nothing stopping her from sending visions to her clergy constantly, but even for the Saint, they seem to communicate only briefly. Implying a steeper cost for Her, and not Just for the mortal. Thus, while powerful, she very much just cant exert her power freely on the mortal plane, so if the witch WAS working with the other 2 gods, and they helped her create the Labyrinth, then we must consider another point as well. Why did those two gods, even if their church was destroyed, fully vanish, if gods can send messages to anyone, then those gods should have been able to survive into this era and re-established their churches. Therefore. I posit another extension onto your theory. What if those two gods, Sacrificed their entire Beings to pay the cost. To Help Create the Labyrinth for the Witch, and invest the remainder of the power into her. If their churches and followers were gone, they must have only had small amounts of power to pay whatever cost there might of been, which we can assume would be high for something so extreme, and they truly wanted to help, and also get some form of revenge on those who made their downfall maybe as well, They must have done something to gain the power to pay the cost, and if we assume all gods can sacrifice things for power with consent from the other party like Karui, then maybe they made a pact with each other, sacrificing themselves to each other. Granting the power to the Witch to create her vision, and also for her to potentially shift the forms of Humans, creating the other races and setting the stage for the beginning of the world as we know it currently (Sorry for the wall of text, haha, hope yall enjoy the theory though)
Very interesting theory, much food for thought. I get your reasoning, with the clear limitations of power presented to us thus far, how are these amazing feats accomplished, and at what cost? Hope we get some more answers soon 😀
@Ashlen they mentioned your keyword – parallel realities 😋
So more for the origin theories, there were no other races in the old empire… so maybe either the other races came from other worlds via portals or something, or they were created with false histories to support Raphdonia.
Also the fact that monsters pre-existed but as if they were animals – some with close enough intelligence to humans – is another interesting development, meaning that the monsters in the labyrinth are inherently different and follow a sort of universal mandate, as if following instinctive rules, or a guided will. Also the fact that they now provide resources (stones, items, and essences) also lends to the idea that they were fabricated along with the labyrinth. Apparently everything in the labyrinth was based off of something and imbued with the labyrinth rule system.
I think at this point we have enough info to ask more questions, but not enough to answer them, but love to hear everyone’s thoughts from here
Also… if there really never were any stones in the past, how DID the cambormere duchy survive without farmers in this remote land? Or maybe there were, and they just didn’t get included in the labyrinth copy…
i mean, we do know other worlds exist, how else could we explain earth and raphdonia. But this is interesting. What if the City of Raphdonia, and those who controlled it, were trying to flee their original dimension for some reason or another, and ended up here, in a world where humans were the only race, and their history was all that was left to them. Or, alternatively, what if the people of Raphdonia were created, modifed from normal humans. All of them look humanoid, and even the beastfolk just have animalistic features on a humanoid body. Barbarian hearts are already strange and magical, so what if each race was created generations ago at the inception of Raphdonia, and made to serve the Royals, and are merely meant to be servants for the true leaders behind everything in the City. The Immortal king already seemed willing to throw lives away for his convenience with taking his kid’s bodies, so maybe magically altering people into other races to control them more easily could have happened ages past as well. Or Maybe it was part of what the Witch did to others, and like karui turned others into Monsters, maybe the true Witches curse created the Races as we know them today? Also, if there were intelligent monsters, and theyre the ones beyond the wall…. That could mean that everything out there is much much more dangerous. If there are still vampires, and other strong monsters out in the wilds. as for the farming and your comment on potions, its probably that alchemist in the age of the Empire were the more traditional idea as we know of them in other stories, using herbs, and magical power to create potions and such is my guess. And its possible that the blood tinted castle lands didnt include the farming land, as its mostly the castly, and less the surrounding village right? and if the Duke did kill and eat everyone, as he says, then the farms could have fallen into disrepair at the point when the Duchy was destroyed, given that the Duke and his daught survived on flesh and Blood, the former farms falling apart makes sense
One thing to note about Bjorn's conversation with the Duke is the latter used the word ‘legend’ to describe the races. And, we have seen ‘legendary’ monsters too, isn't? Yes, the tier 1 overpowered nd legendary monsters, all included with their lore and flare.So, it's very possible the races were also made in the labyrinth… Perhaps, the place where they were made is one of the lower basements? Since creatures made there don't actually turn into light particles when they die, unless they use that conservation magic or something they have.
what if whatever process created the Hybrid monsters and their weird essence was also somehow applied to humans, creating variations. What if the racial traits are merely the racial skills of somethin imbued into the original group of humans it was applied to. Theres so many potential ways to interpret all of this, it opens a million roads, but only 1 is the right one, we need more info
could that be part of why Gavis wanted Bjorn to go into the Basement? To find whatever allowed this process? Could gavis be seeking to alter species or something?
I’m kind of leaning towards a creation theory – only because of a couple reasons: when explorers die their bodies can’t be taken out of the labyrinth, until distortion is cast on them, turning them into items; raphdonia would have needed a lot of support to thrive, creating an economy of workers (dwarves for smithing and construction, fairies for farming, beasties for animal rearing, etc) and training them as explorers to gather resources from the labyrinth; lastly, the king can seemingly control all of the races – this seems like something by design.Also, re: the duchy, it was said that it was located in a mountainous region, if i’m not mistaken (unless that was just Raven's conjecture), so it didn’t sound like they had land to farm. Never say never though… you might be right about it being excluded since father and daughter drove out the subjects and survived on people.Also the monsters that existed (goblins, orcs, etc) seemed to be like natural occuring animals with intelligence rather than creatures converted from humans. I think the human converts are the ones who are named monsters or higher variants
the lower level monsters might be more generic civilians also, who didnt have any big impact or meaning in the grand scope but were there, or like you said, just copies of the preexisting monsters
Yea this starting to get sad we for sure know all the monsters souls use to be something that maybe was good or trying to protect something and prayed to the witch that then used there souls to protect the world from whatever she is sealing inside the abyss
This is getting more and more complicated by the second. Monsters were real but not dwarves and faeries? Entirely religions wipes out for politics when we know Gods exist? What exactly happened to this world to shift things so drastically? Also a theory- Bjorn could talk with the vampire cause he has his essence once. That or his evil spirit nature connected with whatever soul storage all these guardians are in
Edit: Amelia: “Bjorn you’re grounded! You had me and your 3 wives worried sick!”
Nah, I don't think it's because of that. Bjorn has been special since way before this. He was the only one to met the witch when he went through the fire in the witch’s forest. And let's be honest, he was already special when he met the duke the first time. We all let it go with “he just had bad luck” but if we change our mind a little, that's something that shouldn't have been possible at the time, not to mention the dialogue the mad duke was able to produce.So if there's something special about Bjorn, I think it began after he was summoned for clearing the original game.
i think its a combination personally, I think Bjorn is Special, but also is fulfilling certain conditions on accident that allow for some events to occur. there for sure likely is some things that only happened cause he beat the original, but personally i feel like he’s also just figuring certain other things out with game experience also
people forget that gavis gave bjorn magic that stops magic instruments from working on him what if the tower is just a stronger magic instrument and it gives him temp clearance
i think that would be rather overpowered tbh, and if Gavis could do that, why not do it to himself and just go into these places or one of his agents instead, i think Gavis need Bjorn for his mind and qualifications
gavis literally made bjorn fight against the original story of dread fear and he is over powered but my guess is because only bjorn can be built up to fight against the things gavis cant control
Agreed, the ability and prowress to pass the original isn’t to be underestimated, and likely signifies his ability (to Gavis, et al) to do the same in this world
Bjorn’s mental defenses so strong he can not only tame a yandere elf, befriend an illusion hamster floor boss, and preserve his virginity after getting three wives and an older sister, but he can also remove the insanity status condition from any boss monster just by talking to it.
Davis created the Game so people can cross over from earth. As far as we know is Bjorn the only one to ever clear the original difficulty of the Game. It could be possible that with clearing the original Game more of him transferred to the new world making him more special. & all the people that used easier modes to complete the game kinda “cheated” their way into the new world
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If not parallel realities – why not iterations? For example, if Vampire is from one of the previous world iterations, when different types of creatures inhabited the current for him version of the world.
if Two Gods Church’s were taken down by the Empire before, I wonder who they were? One could have been karui, maybe before this, Karui was more normal, but after having their entire church and following razed, maybe he became vengeful against the world? Or maybe Karui was never one of those 2 church’s taken down, What if Karui was from another universe, who crossed over to here for some reason known only to him. Karui seemingly works different from the other god stuff we’ve seen, but we also have only really seen 2 gods, so its possible every one is very different in powers and scope, so its hard to know anything specific on gods yet
@Ashlen they mentioned your keyword – parallel realities 😋
So more for the origin theories, there were no other races in the old empire… so maybe either the other races came from other worlds via portals or something, or they were created with false histories to support Raphdonia.
Also the fact that monsters pre-existed but as if they were animals – some with close enough intelligence to humans – is another interesting development, meaning that the monsters in the labyrinth are inherently different and follow a sort of universal mandate, as if following instinctive rules, or a guided will. Also the fact that they now provide resources (stones, items, and essences) also lends to the idea that they were fabricated along with the labyrinth. Apparently everything in the labyrinth was based off of something and imbued with the labyrinth rule system.
I think at this point we have enough info to ask more questions, but not enough to answer them, but love to hear everyone’s thoughts from here
Also… if there really never were any stones in the past, how DID the cambormere duchy survive without farmers in this remote land? Or maybe there were, and they just didn’t get included in the labyrinth copy…
I think maybe the Witch evolved the other races from monsters.
Yea this starting to get sad we for sure know all the monsters souls use to be something that maybe was good or trying to protect something and prayed to the witch that then used there souls to protect the world from whatever she is sealing inside the abyss
This is getting more and more complicated by the second. Monsters were real but not dwarves and faeries? Entirely religions wipes out for politics when we know Gods exist? What exactly happened to this world to shift things so drastically? Also a theory- Bjorn could talk with the vampire cause he has his essence once. That or his evil spirit nature connected with whatever soul storage all these guardians are in
Edit: Amelia: “Bjorn you’re grounded! You had me and your 3 wives worried sick!”
Oh snap good chapter, hope the vamp finds peace at some point, and oh boy some new lore about the church being five instead of three